NRCG Operations Committee Meeting
November 13-14,
2001
Ø Performance and configuration of out-of-Area Type 2 Teams: Issues and Concerns?
§ Moose Fire: It took a while to get connected with local and county officials. Is there going to be a FS review conducted of the Moose Fire? A review can identify how things could have been done differently. The problem is the County believes they have responsibility for any fire on private ground. They will not sign delegation of authority. Will they accept unified command? Some believe yes. The Forest Service will be reviewing the County's claim for $290,000 for the Moose Fire. Perhaps this could be a jumping off point for further issues.
§ an interagency group that includes local government -- relationship between feds and others
§ how do IMTs become aware of this issue before going into the situation?
§ IC's need a general understanding of agreements and definitions across the State of Montana - NRCG could assist in cleaning up the statutes in this State
§ NRCG can also help with safety issue - pay is one thing - communication is huge issue
§ keep ICP's together - so communication can continue
§ what happens in Flathead county is going to encourage or discourage other counties
§ positive -- coordination between State/ FNF and GNP was great; need to bolster this
§ bringing a medical doctor in instead of taking to emergency room was amazing
§ went thru one dispatch center - one WFSA - forgot boundaries
§ order direct from cache worked great
Recommendation to NRCG Board: How are we going to handle this in the future?
Boatner and Kirkendall will summarize big issues for the NRCG board that need to be resolved on the Flathead as well as what other teams need to look at. At the Teams meeting in March would like to set up a couple of line officers and ICs for a general discussion of working with local governments, i.e. - what we should be shooting for as well as pitfalls - good and bad experiences.
Ø Ops Committe needs to keep hands on the following also:
§ safety - things ICs have done on Teams –
§ steps ICs take to provide for safety - priority that we all get from agency administrator thru delegation of authority
§ taking positive steps to mitigate safety problems -- this is a request from OSHA
§ concern of what agency administrators give out is not measurable
Ø Team performance needs to be communicated to other ICs - good and bad
§ closeout notes -- Plattes will collect a copy of 2002 closeout notes and get to the Ops Committee
§ brief summary that identifies things that worked well and didn't work well - send to Plattes/Specht -- need to be disseminated
§ IC's will prepare a summary page for future closeouts and send a copy to Team Coordinators
Ø Size of out-of-Area teams
§ large
§ not established teams - not well organized - a hodgepodge of personnel
§ see a difference in performance from a cobbled-up team and an established team;
§ Line Officer responsible to recognize the need to have the team succeed - have to do certain things with teams and put them in an environment that they are comfortable with
§ need to look at size of T2 teams and cohesiveness
§ need to beef up wording in national mobilization guide to specify what standards are for T2 like already exists for T1 teams
§ Boatner going to NWCG in January 2002 and give a briefing and recommendations on team standard configurations for T1 and T2 teams
§
Recommend giving out of Area teams a 3-4 page briefing
on issues that tend to bite teams in the Northern Rockies. Specht will put together a small group
and flesh out a simple briefing paper of issues to be aware of. Send Specht any ideas/issues you have.
§ how do we allow a cobbled-up team the opportunity to succeed? Perhaps attach a coach (retiree) to the team to assist them in getting up and running for a couple of days
Ø How does the dispatch organization work - still unclear; team dispatches - differences at different centers
§ service from NRCC and cache is outstanding - you don't experience that across the nation; online 209 worked well
§ when Mike and Kathy are involved - team orders go smoother
§ it's difficult when teams are substituting names from the roster; a lot of negotiation going on - it's almost like invitations
§
Recommendation:
Plattes will invite all IC's to dispatcher meeting to re-emphasize Team
dispatches; meeting in Helena, March 12-14, 2002
§ feedback to local agencies on date and time needed
Ø FAST
§ how do they get ordered/how they show up - inconsistencies on when they show up
§ some fires get them and some don't
§ Boatner will check into what triggered the Team
Ø Need to educate line officers as to WFU vs suppression team
§ national fire use teams - no national standards yet as to what comprises a FUMT - hope to see in national mobe guide
§ come in as FUMT and try to handle suppression
§ FUMT lack safety officers
§ air operations also an issue
§ FUMT ICs need to recognize when the situation is over their head
§ the host agency needs to recognize this as well and do something to correct
§ agency administrators do not understand the difference between FUMT and suppression teams
§ have FUMT set up protocols etc. to FUMT plan;
§ propose to NRCG rotation between East Basin and NR so that people get a break from being on call all summer;
§ propose a NRCG working committee to deal with fire use/prescribed fire issues;
§ Nationally looks like there will be some changes coming regarding National FUMT's: (1) each GACC establish their own FUMT and be in National rotation; (2) do away with FUMT and have T1 and T2 teams handle - qualifications an issue
Ø Predictive Services – (Steve_Stoll@fws.gov)
§ think about what type of products are needed to help you do your jobs
§ huge project - chip away at it bit by bit; smoke monitoring unit is the beginning - already established - will act as support to smoke monitoring unit (in Dave Levinson's absence)
§ Immediate Priorities
- Support the needs of all Area users
- Define services required by Intelligence/Operations sections of the GACC
- Improve coordination and provide training in North Dakota
- Instruct training courses
§ Integrate into the existing smoke management function
§ Build a fire weather program focusing on predictive services that assist managers in setting geographical priorities and anticipating resource readiness
§ Other Priorities
- Establish a working relationship with all regional NWS Offices and improve service – no duplication of NWS services/products
- Collect and monitor RAWS data – Bruce Thoricht will take over the maintenance and monitoring for the Area
- Evaluate weather products and services produced at other GACC’s
- Develop a climatological data format to support fire operations
§ Program Elements
- communication with all users and providers
- evaluation of short-term forecasts
- fire day assessment - targeted for that fire day - what initial attack resources need for the day
- briefings (scheduled/unscheduled)
- collection and monitoring of surface and climatological data
- short-term projections (3-10 day)
- mid-term assessments (10-30 day)
- long-range risk assessment (plus 30 day)
- technological guidance and transfer
- regional training
Need to get a list of 2-3 people from each NRCG zone to Steve Stoll – this list will enable Steve to contact them regarding fuels/fire behavior and get feedback (ground truthing)
Ø GIS
§ NRCG Geo Spatial Task Group consists of 4 smaller groups: Admin; Geo Spatial Data Libraries and Standards; Communication and Networking; Training
§ how to get products to users in a timely manner
§ firefighter and public safety key issue
§ GIS liaison - someone to make sure the maps are disseminated - not the technician
§ Needs: more training for SITL/planning sections; expectation that Teams put out good maps; need National standards; do we need to take up a spot on the team for GIS?
Meeting set up for January 23-24, 2001, to get ops/planning section chiefs, SITL, computer specialists to come up with standard formats and go then to the IMT Meeting in Billings in March
Ø Eastern Area Participation:
Ø Team Meeting Agenda
Ø 2003 S-520 Candidates:
Ø NRCG/NRCC Agreement and Operating Plan: cost share/IMT support/organization
§ most of the document is done except the cost share - easy to figure out NRCC/IMT support with resource orders
§ costs based on fair estimate of use by resource orders
§ other agencies now have personnel located at the AFD
- one agreement and then roll up?
- base on percentage of FTE or space
§ one recommendation is to divide up the costs by resource orders; another recommendation is to use IMT percentages
§ divide facilities and support costs using the same formula as NRCC (resource orders), then need to figure out what those costs are
§ FS Engineering going to charge by the square foot - all facilities moving into WCF
§ SDC/MDC move into NRCC old office affects cost share
§ NRCC organization: proposal of 3.5 positions - assistant intell; computer specialist; logistics coordinator
Ø ROSS Update
Ø IMS Support
§ IMS program in NR is coming to an end
§ IMS services are going to be contracted in the future from the private sector
§ Dr. Guffin cannot get any insurance and this puts our employees liable for treatments
§ FS contracting is looking at how other areas are contracting for these types of services
- still need line EMTs
- medical unit in camp - need to be careful here - still need medical management in camp whatever their limitations are
- is this a GACC contract or individual contracts? is there recommendation from this group?
- IMTs need to know what they can and cannot do
- they need a good/clean environment - tent is not acceptable
- roles and responsibilities need to be defined -- define what kind of treatment you want on the line and what kind of treatment you want in camp
- get copies of other Area contracts
- who's taking the lead? John Specht will be looking at who can be lead
Ø IA Support
§ concern we spend 80% of our time at these meetings on other things that do not deal with IA - very little IA is dealt with at this level -- a lot of fatalities are IA - should we do more from this level to support IA -- need to look at a shift in our emphasis?
§ historically the coordinating group does not make decisions at the local level – they handle it at the GACC level
§ IA a local unit function until they can't handle it then it bumps up –
§ Boatner has asked Cunningham to do some staff work on establishing acadamies -- other areas already have this –
§ another opportunity is predicted services - need to attach FBAN
§
should we try to have day and a half safety summit
meeting in NR in the spring - audience IA and extended attack firefighters
-- Take it on the road - put a cadre
together -- will bump this up to the
/NRCG BOD and task Chamberlain to put together a cadre
Ø Cache Issues
§ Fire loss -- after team leaves, cache hounds districts for items -- district people don't know where to look to find these items - can there be a box that all these items go?
§ Handed out NR Final Strategic Plan for Fire Jeans document - NR will be the only cache that will stock the old style jeans
- issues -- address to Pat Nooney
- laundry services will increase
- out-of-area personnel will not be able to exchange their BDUs with new BDUs in NR - they will get old style jeans
§ can the old style jeans be excessed to rural fire departments?
Ø MIF Program
§ MIF handbook being rewritten
§ crew structure & IARRs
- do not require crew reps for dispatches in the NR
- NRCC sends IARR's with crews out of area
- difficulty coming up with crew rep
- every attempt will be made to have crew rep from another agency than from that crew
- if you need IARR and crew reps - order them --
- need more IARRs and crew reps - this could be a good opportunity for other non-BIA agencies to develop leadership skills and interpersonal skills -- FMO level needs to make people available
Recommend the MIF committee be placed under the NRCG umbrella to take up issues and help with solutions. Allow a representative from each BIA agency/tribe to be a member on the committee. Boatner will take to NRCG BOD.
§ Crew Peformance
- need to heighten the performance level of the MIF program particularly at the leadership level due to increasing complexities and demands we are placing on individuals on incidents
- look into Fireline Leadership Training
- MIF not a full time employment
§ National crew contract with 100 crews - 10 crews in the NR; $25,000 guarantee; core season for the crews; hope that some of the Tribes will bid on this - on street sometime in Dec.; location of crews to be determined; adverse is that these crews will be called first before MIF
§ all agencies need to have full participation in training crew bosses etc. -- human resource specialists are key players in the training as well
§ what are the expectations for a crew? This needs to be defined. Need to set these crews up for success.
Ø Contract Engine crew qualifications
§ will have to continue to deal with these
§ getting all kinds of equipment and skills
§ not all agencies dispatch with single resource boss;
§ how do we get the contract engine people trained as single resource boss
§ need to begin the process of enhancing quals of engine crews so that they better meet the need of what is required of their performance
§ goal should be to have all single resource boss qualified - need to get word out so that they can start taking advantage and take avenues to reach this goal
§ recommend business and training committees need to come up with reasonable quals with input from operations committee
Ø Hotshots
§ feel that they have no authority to manage their crew when they are not in pay status
§ IMTs were dictating actions when they are not in pay status
§ one solution push for portal to portal pay;
§ the only thing that IMTs have to fall back on is work rest guidelines and their ability to perform
§ consistent treatment of NR crews -- bigger issue than this; safety is issue and moral responsibility as a leader; standards of conduct for everyone
Ø Skidgen, tenders, sawyers
§ spent a lot of time getting these people trained/standards
§ worked well once standards were understood
§ business committee updating chapter 20 - if you have input, get a hold of Roberta Whitlock at the AFD (406-329-4956) - hope to have finalized by the first of January with distribution in March